So..what do you guys think of DFM?

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So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Dehumanization » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:10 am

So far kind of "meh", need to work on joystick customization and sensitivity. I hate the 300i so far. :/
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Seraph » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:29 am

Needs persistence and pvp before i care
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Glabro » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:16 am

I finished dl it today morning and went to work. WIll try in the evening. THe Hangar for me is like 15 FPS or less :) But at least it works now...

What I dislike? Holographic HUD replacing functional displays, buttons etc. I hope it's just a placeholder cause it's easier. Other than that I also need persistence and pvp, just like Seraph.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby praetorian » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:00 pm

Yeah I was able to look around in the cockpit but nothing was interactive at all. Im assuming that will change. It does give a good indication of what it will be like in an out number scenario, on wave 7 ish im always alone because my wingmen die, so its me vs 6 guys... survived maybe a minute or so before they all fired on me at once.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Seraph » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:18 pm

praetorian wrote:Yeah I was able to look around in the cockpit but nothing was interactive at all. Im assuming that will change. It does give a good indication of what it will be like in an out number scenario, on wave 7 ish im always alone because my wingmen die, so its me vs 6 guys... survived maybe a minute or so before they all fired on me at once.
The trick there is to lure them into an asteroid field, where if you're careful it'll be easier to take them out one by one. They will suicide into asteroids more often than you will, especially if you keep the speed of the fight high.

Use the M key to match target velocity when engaging an opponent, if your shields go down smash that afterburner, get some distance between you and them while you're shields recharge, tap the decouple, flip back around, and re-engage.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Meaph » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:27 am

There wre a few things I couldnt work out what they did, I take it decoupling makes you fly with real physics in that you can drift backwards ect?
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Seraph » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:33 pm

Meaph wrote:There wre a few things I couldnt work out what they did, I take it decoupling makes you fly with real physics in that you can drift backwards ect?

Yep! Watch out for asteroids.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Dudus » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:03 pm

I have only been on AC a little. for sure it needs some tweaks.

There should be a better representation of the radar, it's a bit meh and only the targeted ship is obvious where it is. The interface is not great, there's lots of meaningless stuff in the cockpit and you have to cycle thru the screens to get the info. i tend to leave the shield page up.

The control is a bit shitty atm, i am currently on m/kb, big dead zone then very sensitive movement will take a bit of practice. hopefully they will make available some kind of lead indicator.

Missiles seem very useful so i'm trying to decide if maybe the freelancer missile boat will be my variant.

i'm a bit confused about the cutlass. with the last few tweaks on the ship specs it seems the cutlass got fat and is now similar to the freelancer for cargo capacity.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Glabro » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:53 pm

Dudus wrote:I have only been on AC a little. for sure it needs some tweaks.

There should be a better representation of the radar, it's a bit meh and only the targeted ship is obvious where it is. The interface is not great, there's lots of meaningless stuff in the cockpit and you have to cycle thru the screens to get the info. i tend to leave the shield page up.

The control is a bit shitty atm, i am currently on m/kb, big dead zone then very sensitive movement will take a bit of practice. hopefully they will make available some kind of lead indicator.

Missiles seem very useful so i'm trying to decide if maybe the freelancer missile boat will be my variant.

i'm a bit confused about the cutlass. with the last few tweaks on the ship specs it seems the cutlass got fat and is now similar to the freelancer for cargo capacity.


What he said.
Cutlass getting fat, lol. Ye, aren't them all? 8-)

Some extra thoughts:
1) It seems to me that the ships are very fragile atm. I've watched more vids than I played myself, but it seems to me that i.e. Vanduul Scythe takes few well-aimed hits and it's crippled beyond repair and a bit more and it's destroyed. I guess it's because of PvE-balanced alpha and in final game the ships will be more sturdy and will take more than few hits to be destroyed. Imagine the PvP looking like that you fly for few minutes to hours only to encounter another player and be dead in 5 seconds when he spams the FoF missiles on you (I guess this will be the Constellation's speciality) and your 1 of 10 lives total is immediately lost. Imagine that PvP version of DFM comes out and it won't be possible to fly away to "recharge your shields" cause other players won't give you a respite. The game will be highly unforgiving to any errors (even ones caused by bad luck or unfavorable odds) and I'd preferred there WAS some small room for error. So, I'd like the ships to have stronger shields than they have now and for some energy management to be in game (i.e. diverting energy from engines/weapons to shields or something like that. Basically how it worked in X-wing/Tie Fighter games). I believe it will be in and I think they will enhance/balance it later.

2) I am not a big fan of autoaim we currently see in the game (guns follow your target as the game supposes that your pilot looks at it and guns aim where you look). I guess they need to tone done a bit how powerful swiveled guns are atm, cause it takes a lot of skill out of the game and feels like a cheat. What is now more or less a common thing for most better-than-basic ships should be something very extra - like ITTS system you got in WC3 (and up) on the most powerful, end-game ships ONLY. And I think it should be balanced by the fact that you need to sacrifice something else for it - i.e. that the ITTS software takes up one slot that would otherwise be available for other stuff, like some scanning or jamming SW. I realize that in reality in 30th century the guns would probably not only aim themselves but also fly on their own, but we're not trying to be realistic here. I want the game to be as skill-based as possible.

3) I can't wait to see how the heavier ships handle in PvP. It will be very interesting to see i.e. a fight of Super Hornet vs Constellation. I secretly hope that a skilled pilot in F7M can own the Connie and (only in case the pilot of a Conie is more skilled) vice versa.
Last edited by Glabro on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby COMI » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:04 pm

The way it is now the 300I is OP lol, better then hornet IMO. Got past wave 9 with both wingmen intact cause u can take out 2 vandull on the initial approach. Btw how do u use missiles ? xD
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby ProjectZen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:03 am

I enjoy the decoupled mode but this made me laugh big time :lol:
It was posted by a AC is turret in space whiner

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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby ProjectZen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:08 am

Glabro wrote:2) I am not a big fan of autoaim


Apparently this is the reason.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.c ... weapons/p1
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Glabro » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:50 am

ProjectZen wrote:
Glabro wrote:2) I am not a big fan of autoaim


Apparently this is the reason.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.c ... weapons/p1



Ok. But what they need to do then is to make their newtonian model not applying to bolts/bullets so they fly as you'd expect them to fly in usual aerial combat and player can predict where they go. Solving it by making all guns autoaiming for you is (I'm sure) just a shortcut allowing them to release DFM now and not in 3 months, when they would be crucified by the community.

Simply put: autoaiming makes the game too easy, not challenging and not fun and CIG needs to make it exclusive to only few guns on any particular ship (not all), expensive to have and balance it by a tradeoff approach that you can have either autoaimed guns or something else. Something which can be situationally useful to the same degree as autoaim. An example here would be that someone would have computer-controlled intelligent targeting system installed making some of their guns autoaim and someone else would have a binary virus emitter software that would be able to temporarily disrupt enemy ship's computer systems (maybe including the targeting one). In short rock, paper, scissors...
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Seraph » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:28 am

Glabro wrote:I realize that in reality in 30th century the guns would probably not only aim themselves but also fly on their own, but we're not trying to be realistic here.

If our species manages to survive that long, it will be because we stopped using violence to solve our problems, and instead looked to reason. There will be no guns in the 30th century, or there will be no humans in the 30th century. One or the other.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Glabro » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:45 am

Seraph wrote:
Glabro wrote:I realize that in reality in 30th century the guns would probably not only aim themselves but also fly on their own, but we're not trying to be realistic here.

If our species manages to survive that long, it will be because we stopped using violence to solve our problems, and instead looked to reason. There will be no guns in the 30th century, or there will be no humans in the 30th century. One or the other.


Correct. That's why I only smile when I see arguments on RSI about this or that aspect of SC being "unrealistic". I also think that if we survive and advance in the same pace as we do up till today (and we don't stumble on the way somewhere) humans won't be traversing the dimensions (deliberately not limiting it to just time-space) in the ships as we understand the concept today.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Seraph » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:31 pm

This!

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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby ProjectZen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:13 pm

this guy claims that there will be different flight models that you can install into your ship( tuning) so it might be that there is a flight computer system that let's you do flying how you prefer it.(2:05) Haven't tried to confirm this yet as i just saw the vid


If this is true the depth of SC flying and fighting is huge and you all should be on our knees licking the cheese out from betweens CR's toes whilst muttering apologies for being such infidels :shock:
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby ProjectZen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:26 pm

anyway, just found this
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.c ... ers#latest

there will be full 6dof
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby ProjectZen » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:36 pm

This is supposed to be from CR.( couldn't find the OP)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.c ... sub-par/p2

When I see posts about the physics not being correct, or the flight model being WW2 and not Newtonian – it really means that current implementation of the Intelligent Flight Control System (IFCS) is not what people would like / are expecting as there is no cheating on physics (as I describe above).... My goal is to have more than one IFCS setting (possibly needing a different avionics package) with different “flight models” and the more sophisticated packages will allow a pilot to switch off and on aspects of the IFCS – for instance letting your fly-by-wire system know that you input is now only about angular position / velocity and not your linear velocity vector, or that your input is now just requesting a velocity /adjustment without a heading change. The goal from the beginning of Star Citizen has always been to allow players to set up and customize their ship the way they want. There will be a huge amount of plug in items / systems that will allow a player to significantly tweak the abilities of their ship and part of this is the flight computer.
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Re: So..what do you guys think of DFM?

Postby Glabro » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:20 pm

ProjectZen wrote:This is supposed to be from CR.( couldn't find the OP)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.c ... sub-par/p2

When I see posts about the physics not being correct, or the flight model being WW2 and not Newtonian – it really means that current implementation of the Intelligent Flight Control System (IFCS) is not what people would like / are expecting as there is no cheating on physics (as I describe above).... My goal is to have more than one IFCS setting (possibly needing a different avionics package) with different “flight models” and the more sophisticated packages will allow a pilot to switch off and on aspects of the IFCS – for instance letting your fly-by-wire system know that you input is now only about angular position / velocity and not your linear velocity vector, or that your input is now just requesting a velocity /adjustment without a heading change. The goal from the beginning of Star Citizen has always been to allow players to set up and customize their ship the way they want. There will be a huge amount of plug in items / systems that will allow a player to significantly tweak the abilities of their ship and part of this is the flight computer.


Awesome.
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